Pennsylvania ID/DL while AOS

[Jackpenn]

I tried getting Pennsylvania ID/DL because I do not want to carry the passport with me all the time.

According to this http://www.dmv.state...ts/pub195nc.pdf I would apply under Applicant for Adjustment of Status. I came in to the DMV office first time and the lady told me DHS cannot verify me. She told me I have to wait to receive EAD before she can do anything. Today I went the second time and the guy asked me for EAD right away. I told him my passport should be enough since that is written on their fact sheet.

I had more than 2 proofs of address, I had my SS card, all I-797s. They tried putting in receipt number and alien number but the verification couldn't go through. I told them that doesn't make sense since I-797s do prove that my case is pending with USCIS. In their fact sheet it says they would accept I-797 as a proof of a pending application.

I wasn't satisfied with their answer which was you gotta wait for EAD. I asked for a supervisor. He came and told me whatever the first guy said is true. He wasn't professional at all. I asked him can I get a written statement why I can't get the documents and he said no! Then the third lady came and she told me I need a SEVIS number before I can apply??? Afterwards she told me to consult with my lawyer.

In the end she told me I have to reside in PA for at least 6 months on the new status before I can apply for an ID/DL. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I wanted to ask for your opinion before I go to the lawyer. I don't want to break the law by driving with my European DL, Driving the car is kind of important right now for me and my wife and I don;t want to carry the passport with me all the time. I thought there would be some kind of temporary license I could get before I get my Green Card..

Thanks in advance!

[rayb]

Jack,

No matter what a DMV FAQ told you, most state agencies rely on electronic confirmation of status before issuing driver's license or State ID cards. Advice to "go to your attorney" was simply "get out of our face."

By talking to three DMV staff, each of whom supported the others, you forced them to further confuse you with references to SEVIS number, attorney referral, and 6-months wait. Far as I can tell, the SEVIS number is a student-visa status-related number and doesn't apply to you at all.

When you pressure a low-level government clerk to perform a task beyond his training or experience, you are likely to be getting nonsense instructions which are just "guesses" from the clerk.

Go back when you have your EAD.

--Ray B

I tried getting Pennsylvania ID/DL because I do not want to carry the passport with me all the time.

According to this http://www.dmv.state...ts/pub195nc.pdf I would apply under Applicant for Adjustment of Status. I came in to the DMV office first time and the lady told me DHS cannot verify me. She told me I have to wait to receive EAD before she can do anything. Today I went the second time and the guy asked me for EAD right away. I told him my passport should be enough since that is written on their fact sheet.


I had more than 2 proofs of address, I had my SS card, all I-797s. They tried putting in receipt number and alien number but the verification couldn't go through. I told them that doesn't make sense since I-797s do prove that my case is pending with USCIS. In their fact sheet it says they would accept I-797 as a proof of a pending application.

I wasn't satisfied with their answer which was you gotta wait for EAD. I asked for a supervisor. He came and told me whatever the first guy said is true. He wasn't professional at all. I asked him can I get a written statement why I can't get the documents and he said no! Then the third lady came and she told me I need a SEVIS number before I can apply??? Afterwards she told me to consult with my lawyer.

In the end she told me I have to reside in PA for at least 6 months on the new status before I can apply for an ID/DL. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I wanted to ask for your opinion before I go to the lawyer. I don't want to break the law by driving with my European DL, Driving the car is kind of important right now for me and my wife and I don;t want to carry the passport with me all the time. I thought there would be some kind of temporary license I could get before I get my Green Card..

Thanks in advance!

[Jackpenn]

PennDOT or PA DMV is relying on DHS Verification. That is stated clearly on their form. There is no explicit statement saying a person has to have EAD in hands before an ID/DL can be issued. It seems they are actually scanning through SEVIS database. If they can't verify me this is what they are supposed to do (something they haven't even mentioned to me) http://www.uscis.gov/save/getting-st...cation-process

USCIS is a part of DHS and I don't see where is the problem checking my Case number or Alien number from I-797's. They clearly state my application is in the pending status with USCIS. A government confirmation of authorization for the people who have applied for AOS is right here http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87120.pdf

As I said before driving a car is really important right now. I cannot drive on my foreign license anymore because I already spent a year here on J1 visa. I really wouldn't push for this if I wasn't in a need for it. I know it is not such a hassle to get it when you get EAD/GC but according to their website I can either present EAD or my passport.

To be honest it is just beyond my understanding how I can't get something when I have everything they ask for.

Can I legally ask for a written statement under which law I am being denied for the license and are they obligated to provide me with it?

Jack,

No matter what a DMV FAQ told you, most state agencies rely on electronic confirmation of status before issuing driver's license or State ID cards. Advice to "go to your attorney" was simply "get out of our face."

By talking to three DMV staff, each of whom supported the others, you forced them to further confuse you with references to SEVIS number, attorney referral, and 6-months wait. Far as I can tell, the SEVIS number is a student-visa status-related number and doesn't apply to you at all.

When you pressure a low-level government clerk to perform a task beyond his training or experience, you are likely to be getting nonsense instructions which are just "guesses" from the clerk.

Go back when you have your EAD.

--Ray B

[rayb]

Jack,

As far as the DMV clerk is concerned, you are not considered eligible for a license until you have the EAD in your hands. That's how they are trained in most states, regardless of what you read on their various FAQ or DHS pages.

If you ask for written proof of the requirement that you are being told is holding up their acceptance, you are exacerbating an already frustrating clerk-client transaction. You probably won't get what you ask for, and you may end up in a verbal confrontation that will force you to use another DMV office next time around.

Of all government agencies in the U.S., state DMV offices probably have the most stressful client contacts (for both clients and employees), and your description of the experience so far suggests that you are entering the "red zone" of such a contact.

--Ray B

PennDOT or PA DMV is relying on DHS Verification. That is stated clearly on their form. There is no explicit statement saying a person has to have EAD in hands before an ID/DL can be issued. It seems they are actually scanning through SEVIS database. If they can't verify me this is what they are supposed to do (something they haven't even mentioned to me) http://www.uscis.gov/save/getting-st...cation-process

USCIS is a part of DHS and I don't see where is the problem checking my Case number or Alien number from I-797's. They clearly state my application is in the pending status with USCIS. A government confirmation of authorization for the people who have applied for AOS is right here http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87120.pdf

As I said before driving a car is really important right now. I cannot drive on my foreign license anymore because I already spent a year here on J1 visa. I really wouldn't push for this if I wasn't in a need for it. I know it is not such a hassle to get it when you get EAD/GC but according to their website I can either present EAD or my passport.

To be honest it is just beyond my understanding how I can't get something when I have everything they ask for.

Can I legally ask for a written statement under which law I am being denied for the license and are they obligated to provide me with it?

[Jackpenn]

Rayb,

I understand what are you saying. As far I am concerned I do not want to break the law by driving on my EU license. I only care what the law says, and so far I haven't noticed the law saying I am ineligible to obtain the license. If they are trained that way regardless of their Fact Sheet or official DHS how to get verification tutorial, then that's a big problem.

It is really not my problem if they are getting frustrated with me by me asking rightful questions.

The experience has been stressful so far. I am used to getting stuff done with no problem if I have everything that is asked for. I will go to another DMV office next week. If I don't get a logical explanation why I am ineligible for the ID/DL I will consult with my lawyer.

Hopefully this can help someone in the future who gets in the same situation.

Jack,

As far as the DMV clerk is concerned, you are not considered eligible for a license until you have the EAD in your hands. That's how they are trained in most states, regardless of what you read on their various FAQ or DHS pages.

If you ask for written proof of the requirement that you are being told is holding up their acceptance, you are exacerbating an already frustrating clerk-client transaction. You probably won't get what you ask for, and you may end up in a verbal confrontation that will force you to use another DMV office next time around.

Of all government agencies in the U.S., state DMV offices probably have the most stressful client contacts (for both clients and employees), and your description of the experience so far suggests that you are entering the "red zone" of such a contact.

--Ray B

[rayb]

Jack,

At the risk of "beating a dead horse," until your EAD is approved, you have no recognized U.S. status which allows for the legal right to drive. Even here in California, where DMV rules are becoming more lenient in allowing driver's licenses for undocumented persons (so that they can then become insured), DMV clerks will insist on the documents for "undocumented" aliens which allow their "undocumented" status to be recognized.

Pennsylvania rules do allow for "discretionary" acceptance of your passport and I-797 forms as proof of eligibility, but getting DMV clerks (and their supervisors) to apply the discretionary approval sounds very much like how California DMV operates.

--Ray B

Rayb,

I understand what are you saying. As far I am concerned I do not want to break the law by driving on my EU license. I only care what the law says, and so far I haven't noticed the law saying I am ineligible to obtain the license. If they are trained that way regardless of their Fact Sheet or official DHS how to get verification tutorial, then that's a big problem.

It is really not my problem if they are getting frustrated with me by me asking rightful questions.

The experience has been stressful so far. I am used to getting stuff done with no problem if I have everything that is asked for. I will go to another DMV office next week. If I don't get a logical explanation why I am ineligible for the ID/DL I will consult with my lawyer.

Hopefully this can help someone in the future who gets in the same situation.

[Jackpenn]

RayB,

I have status which is recognized by the PA DMV and is stated in the PA Fact Sheet - Applicant for Adjustment of Status. It clearly states I am eligible for both DL/ID. This is my "status" or authorized stay per DHS:

b. DHS has interpreted "period of stay authorized by the Secretary of Homeland Security" as used in the construction of unlawful presence in INA 212(a)(9)(B)(ii) to include:
...

(5) For aliens who have properly filed an application for adjustment of status to that of a lawful permanent resident (LPR), the entire period of the pendency of the application, even if the application is subsequently denied or abandoned, provided the alien (unless seeking to adjust status under NACARA or HRIFA) did not file for adjustment "defensively" (i.e., after deportation proceedings had already been initiated);

They, the DMV are supposed to ask the DHS for written confirmation of my status if they can't get it electronically. Even their fact sheet says additional verification may take up to 3 weeks, the problem is they never mentioned additional verification.

You are basically saying I could get the license but since the clerks are not trained good or they do not care I am not going to get it. There is always the boss of supervisors and clerks and there is always media that is interested in these kind of stories.

I am simply asking for something I feel I am eligible to by their rules,not mine.

I think I am not asking too much.

Jack,

At the risk of "beating a dead horse," until your EAD is approved, you have no recognized U.S. status which allows for the legal right to drive. Even here in California, where DMV rules are becoming more lenient in allowing driver's licenses for undocumented persons (so that they can then become insured), DMV clerks will insist on the documents for "undocumented" aliens which allow their "undocumented" status to be recognized.

Pennsylvania rules do allow for "discretionary" acceptance of your passport and I-797 forms as proof of eligibility, but getting DMV clerks (and their supervisors) to apply the discretionary approval sounds very much like how California DMV operates.

--Ray B

[rayb]

Jack,

There are as many ways of looking at your situation as there are people following this thread. There is "what's right" and "what you interpret from the variious agency fact sheets" and "what I have observed from 40 years of government service," for starters.

I didn't imply that you are currently in an "unlawful status," but only that you have no permanent status. Because of your submitted petitions, you are in a pending status and are protected from adverse adjudication.

It seems that you are reading DHS information pages to establish your eligibility for a State DMV benefit. You and I both read that the DMV can accept your passport and I-797 receipt notices as proof of eligibility for a drivers's license, but government agencies have chosen to prefer that you have received a benefit card (EAD or SSN) before allowing you to legally drive or legally work.

Or to put it differently....if you receive a Request for Evidence from USCIS while they review your I-485 you will be deemed temporarily ineligible for an EAD, the latter of which would have provided genuine verifiable eligiblity for a driver's license.

--Ray B

RayB,

I have status which is recognized by the PA DMV and is stated in the PA Fact Sheet - Applicant for Adjustment of Status. It clearly states I am eligible for both DL/ID. This is my "status" or authorized stay per DHS:

b. DHS has interpreted "period of stay authorized by the Secretary of Homeland Security" as used in the construction of unlawful presence in INA 212(a)(9)(B)(ii) to include:
...

(5) For aliens who have properly filed an application for adjustment of status to that of a lawful permanent resident (LPR), the entire period of the pendency of the application, even if the application is subsequently denied or abandoned, provided the alien (unless seeking to adjust status under NACARA or HRIFA) did not file for adjustment "defensively" (i.e., after deportation proceedings had already been initiated);

They, the DMV are supposed to ask the DHS for written confirmation of my status if they can't get it electronically. Even their fact sheet says additional verification may take up to 3 weeks, the problem is they never mentioned additional verification.

You are basically saying I could get the license but since the clerks are not trained good or they do not care I am not going to get it. There is always the boss of supervisors and clerks and there is always media that is interested in these kind of stories.

I am simply asking for something I feel I am eligible to by their rules,not mine.

I think I am not asking too much.

[Jackpenn]

RayB,

I appreciate your input on this and I understand your angle of looking at this.

I am only reading the rules and laws which are written. I do not play the guessing game how a certain agency or clerk feel on a certain day.

I know you didn't imply that I am unlawfully present here and it is obvious I have no PR status.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Outreach/Notes%20from%20Previous%20Engagements/2013/March%202013/QA-IGAQuarterly-Mar202013.pdf

Question 4 even though it is about renewing DL for a person who is in AOS; It is all about the DMW in the end and not the DHS. SAVE verification does not tell DMV to give or not to give an ID/DL to me.

'How do I prove my legal status in order to qualify for a driver's license in my state?

Each state has different rules for driver's licenses. SAVE does not make public benefits determinations; SAVE merely verifies legal status based on an inquiry from the benefit granting agency. Look to your state's local Department of Motor Vehicles for information on qualifying for a driver's license."

http://www.dhs.gov/telecon-recap-immigration-status-verification-drivers-licenses-public-benefits-and-social-security

The question is, does the PA DMV grant DL to people who are in the pending status with USCIS? "I-797 Receipts for Applications for change in status, employment authorization, or extensions in length of stay will be reviewed and in some
cases may be used as proof of a pending action with USCIS, however, not all I-797 receipts are acceptable (such as those for copies of
immigration documents, or petitions for relatives)."

This is what the PA DMV requests from me "Immigration documentation indicating status such as I-797 Receipt Notice, Biometrics Notice, Interview Notice, Court Order of Immigration .."

I have all of them, pretty simple. That is the proof of pending action with USCIS. They should do the additional verification and get the letter.

What does a RFE have to do with getting PA DL? Even if I get RFE's or if I don't my status is not going to change until I receive GC. According to the PA DMV, EAD is one of the documents I may choose to show. It is either my passport or EAD. Having EAD would still show my application in the pending status with USCIS.

This is interesting too "For cases that do not verify immediately, SAVE may need additional information and a copy of your immigration documents. This request does not necessarily mean that you do not have lawful status in the United States or that you are not eligible for the benefit that you are seeking."

I wouldn't not have any problems with this if it was stated you must present EAD in order to get your DL. I wouldn't even bother applying then.

Since that is not the case, and I have a lot of free time until I get my EAD I will try to resolve this.

Jack,

There are as many ways of looking at your situation as there are people following this thread. There is "what's right" and "what you interpret from the variious agency fact sheets" and "what I have observed from 40 years of government service," for starters.

I didn't imply that you are currently in an "unlawful status," but only that you have no permanent status. Because of your submitted petitions, you are in a pending status and are protected from adverse adjudication.

It seems that you are reading DHS information pages to establish your eligibility for a State DMV benefit. You and I both read that the DMV can accept your passport and I-797 receipt notices as proof of eligibility for a drivers's license, but government agencies have chosen to prefer that you have received a benefit card (EAD or SSN) before allowing you to legally drive or legally work.

Or to put it differently....if you receive a Request for Evidence from USCIS while they review your I-485 you will be deemed temporarily ineligible for an EAD, the latter of which would have provided genuine verifiable eligiblity for a driver's license.

--Ray B

[Jackpenn]

Just a little update on this issue.

I went to a different DMV office and obtained a temporary (1 year) ID with no problems. I could have applied for a DL too but they told me since I am adjusting status I can still drive on my EU license up to a year.

In this office they asked me for EAD and when I told them I don't have it they were fine with it. They just requested I-797's. They also took a copy of my wife's passport and our original marriage certificate.

They couldn't verify me through SAVE but that doesn't mean they can't give me the ID/DL.

Afterwards I was told to come back with EAD/GC so they can issue me an ID that would last more than a year.

It was a complete opposite experience to the first office I went to.

[rayb]

jack,

That's great to hear. It seems to go one way or the other, depending on the office you visit.

--RayB

Just a little update on this issue.

I went to a different DMV office and obtained a temporary (1 year) ID with no problems. I could have applied for a DL too but they told me since I am adjusting status I can still drive on my EU license up to a year.

In this office they asked me for EAD and when I told them I don't have it they were fine with it. They just requested I-797's. They also took a copy of my wife's passport and our original marriage certificate.

They couldn't verify me through SAVE but that doesn't mean they can't give me the ID/DL.

Afterwards I was told to come back with EAD/GC so they can issue me an ID that would last more than a year.

It was a complete opposite experience to the first office I went to.

[Robanderson]

Jackpenn,

I'm in a similar position which DMV did you go too? I have been to 2 DMV's already with the same result. Waiting for additional verification.

[kaushi463]

Can you please provide me which DMV in PA have you visited for getting ID with I-797

Hi Jack,

Can you please let me know which DMV in PA have you visited in order to get Temporary License ID? Thanks!

Just a little update on this issue.

I went to a different DMV office and obtained a temporary (1 year) ID with no problems. I could have applied for a DL too but they told me since I am adjusting status I can still drive on my EU license up to a year.

In this office they asked me for EAD and when I told them I don't have it they were fine with it. They just requested I-797's. They also took a copy of my wife's passport and our original marriage certificate.

They couldn't verify me through SAVE but that doesn't mean they can't give me the ID/DL.

Afterwards I was told to come back with EAD/GC so they can issue me an ID that would last more than a year.

It was a complete opposite experience to the first office I went to.

[ramz1977]

PA DL renewal issue with valid EAD...help!!!!!!!!!

I am slightly in a different situation since I am also at I485 AOS pending and already have a valid EAD since 9 days, with an effective valid date of July 8, 2015 and an expiration date on July 7 2017; but the local DMV office have refused to renew my license saying that they couldnot verify my status with the "SAVE" database. They have submitted to DHS for additional verification since 5 days ago and said it could take upto 30 days. I have already called USCIS supportline and also spoken to a Tier II officer. They suggested me book an INFOPASS appointment which I did; but couldnot get an appointment till July 28, 2015. My license has already expired on July 10th and I am in a really difficult situation. I have already tried 2 different DMV offices with no success. Can somebody suggest me if there is a way to get my DL renewed???

Just a little update on this issue.

I went to a different DMV office and obtained a temporary (1 year) ID with no problems. I could have applied for a DL too but they told me since I am adjusting status I can still drive on my EU license up to a year.

In this office they asked me for EAD and when I told them I don't have it they were fine with it. They just requested I-797's. They also took a copy of my wife's passport and our original marriage certificate.

They couldn't verify me through SAVE but that doesn't mean they can't give me the ID/DL.

Afterwards I was told to come back with EAD/GC so they can issue me an ID that would last more than a year.

It was a complete opposite experience to the first office I went to.

[luvrohit85]

texas state id

I'm in the same boat as you were all before, i have an h1b valid for another 2 years, however, when i went to DMV office and applied for a State ID with all the necessary documents. i.e. i presented to them
1. My passport with valid visa (with additional 2 years validity)
2. My Apartment lease ( I showed them 2 papers of the lease which had my name and apartment address, however, they told me to carry all the other papers i.e. total 8 papers of the lease). so i showed them the Apartment Insurance paper
3. My utility bills for last 4 months
4. I-94
5. h1b petition (1st two pages)
6.SSN

After that, they took my pic and scanned my two thumbnails. later, they told me, that i would be receiving a mail from them in 7 days and i have to come back again.

I don't know what they are going to verify, since i presented them with all the required legal documents of my stay here in texas.

I will post my updates once i hear back from the office. I think, i will receive the same letter you guys received however, i will confirm the same.