I-864 impact on divorce proceedings.

[justadude]

I am getting married in a few months to a woman who currently lives in another country. We have an approved visa K1 visa and a plane ticket. I told her that I want a prenup and she has agreed. I emailed her the main points of what I want and she agreed to 90% of it. I found a couple attorneys who specialize in prenups. Their price is $1250-$1500. Neither could give me clear information about how many of the thousands of prenups they have written have held up in court. They both said litigating is not their specialty so they don't really have data. Meanwhile, a buddy who has his law license but doesn't practice told me he thought I could save $1000 by writing it myself then taking it to an attorney to have it looked over and blessed. I don't mind paying what something is worth but I don't always think that paying more money means you get something better.

I realize that she needs to hire her own bilingual attorney in my state, we both need to possess the document for 7 days before signing, and that it cannot violate state family law. I want to protect all of my assets that I'm bringing into the marriage, real estate, cash, cars, retirement, etc. and limit alimony. I live in a community property state. I also realize that even then it can be contested.

So I'm trying to get feedback from men who have actually gone through this. Have you gone through a divorce involving an immigrant with a prenup? Did it hold up? Why do you think it succeeded or failed? How did the affidavit of support, I-864 affect the process?

Right now I'm pretty uneasy about this. Signing a document to support someone for life sounds pretty crazy. My fiance has her s together (educated and is leaving an 8 year career job to be with me) but there are no guarantees in life. Relationships end and it seems prudent to be prepared for that possibility.

[ChicagoVB]

This is what I have found:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/divorcing-can-ex-spouse-support-me-under-form-864-affidavit.html

http://www. ******** ***.com/forums/...esponsibility/

Basically, You will be responsible for spousal support in the event of divorce until one of the following:
A. Becomes a U.S. citizen;
B. Has worked, or can receive credit for, 40 quarters of coverage under the Social Security Act;
C. No longer has lawful permanent resident status and has departed the United States;
D. Is subject to removal, but applies for and obtains, in removal proceedings, a new grant of adjustment of status, based on a new affidavit of support, if one is required; or
E. Dies.

My lawyer told m this would take precedence over my prenup

[ember]

The I-864 will trump the prenup.

As long as both parties are in agreement and want the same things, there is no downside to having a prenup as well. You should just be aware that your financial commitments to your fiance as regards the Affidavit of Support will overcome any limitations that are in your prenup. You should also be aware that prenups are fairly easily contested and they often don't hold up in court, no matter how well-written and thorough they are (my husband and I have one but we both approach it as more of an expression of intent than something we can 100% rely on).

Think about the worst case scenario - you get married, get the gc, remove conditions, get perm gc, and then things fall apart but your wife chooses to remain in the US but doesn't want to work or become a citizen.
Consider what the chances of that happening are. If you are uncomfortable with that probability, maybe you should rethink things.

For the record, I don't think you're wrong to want to protect yourself or anything, and I don't think that things have to be *perfect* or any certain way for people to get married. I just think that you are in a position where you can either take a leap of faith or not. There is no real way, I think, to fully protect yourself here. All marriages, whether they are for love or convenience or money or loneliness or any other of the million and one reasons people get married, require a certain amount of risk, both emotional and financial. With the I-864, there is additional financial consideration. If you are not willing to take that risk, or if you think the risk outweighs the benefits, maybe you have your answer.

In any case, I wish you the best.

[seattle2903]

Your plan is commendable and makes perfect sense. If you do not feel 100% comfortable signing the I-864, which is an important part of sponsoring an alien relative, maybe you should take a little time to reconsider the whole thing. The prenup will most likely have no value in the face of the i-864, which is why it will not protect you against supporting the immigrant until she becomes a USC or meets the other criteria. Seriously, do not rush it. It is better to take time to reflect now than filing and instantly regret it.

As for the prenup, consult with a family law lawyer that specializes in prenups. Pretty easy to find using Google but may be pricey. Good luck!

[UScitizenFilingforspouse]

I am getting married in a few months to a woman who currently lives in another country. We have an approved visa K1 visa and a plane ticket. I told her that I want a prenup and she has agreed. I emailed her the main points of what I want and she agreed to 90% of it. I found a couple attorneys who specialize in prenups. Their price is $1250-$1500. Neither could give me clear information about how many of the thousands of prenups they have written have held up in court. They both said litigating is not their specialty so they don't really have data. Meanwhile, a buddy who has his law license but doesn't practice told me he thought I could save $1000 by writing it myself then taking it to an attorney to have it looked over and blessed. I don't mind paying what something is worth but I don't always think that paying more money means you get something better.

I realize that she needs to hire her own bilingual attorney in my state, we both need to possess the document for 7 days before signing, and that it cannot violate state family law. I want to protect all of my assets that I'm bringing into the marriage, real estate, cash, cars, retirement, etc. and limit alimony. I live in a community property state. I also realize that even then it can be contested.

So I'm trying to get feedback from men who have actually gone through this. Have you gone through a divorce involving an immigrant with a prenup? Did it hold up? Why do you think it succeeded or failed? How did the affidavit of support, I-864 affect the process?

Right now I'm pretty uneasy about this. Signing a document to support someone for life sounds pretty crazy. My fiance has her s together (educated and is leaving an 8 year career job to be with me) but there are no guarantees in life. Relationships end and it seems prudent to be prepared for that possibility.

I think it might be worth for you to carefully read the I-864 instructions. Here is the link. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...i-864instr.pdf
You are responsible to support the immigrant up to the 125% poverty line - not beyond the 125% poverty line. That's one thing. If the immigrant becomes a public charge and uses federal means tested benefits, you may be asked to pay back the cash value of the benefits the immigrant used.
That's about it. The prenup may not override the terms of the I-864. However, it should protect your assets beyond the 125% federal poverty line for a household size of 2.

You could always sign everything over to a trust and make yourself the beneficiary of it.

Beyond this point, I have no meaningful comments or advice to offer.

[justadude]

The I-864 will trump the prenup.

As long as both parties are in agreement and want the same things, there is no downside to having a prenup as well. You should just be aware that your financial commitments to your fiance as regards the Affidavit of Support will overcome any limitations that are in your prenup. You should also be aware that prenups are fairly easily contested and they often don't hold up in court, no matter how well-written and thorough they are (my husband and I have one but we both approach it as more of an expression of intent than something we can 100% rely on).

Think about the worst case scenario - you get married, get the gc, remove conditions, get perm gc, and then things fall apart but your wife chooses to remain in the US but doesn't want to work or become a citizen.
Consider what the chances of that happening are. If you are uncomfortable with that probability, maybe you should rethink things.

For the record, I don't think you're wrong to want to protect yourself or anything, and I don't think that things have to be *perfect* or any certain way for people to get married. I just think that you are in a position where you can either take a leap of faith or not. There is no real way, I think, to fully protect yourself here. All marriages, whether they are for love or convenience or money or loneliness or any other of the million and one reasons people get married, require a certain amount of risk, both emotional and financial. With the I-864, there is additional financial consideration. If you are not willing to take that risk, or if you think the risk outweighs the benefits, maybe you have your answer.

In any case, I wish you the best.

Thank you that is very practical advice. I have posted this question on a few different forums. Your response is among the most helpful and least antagonistic I have read.

I have a further question. How do the nuts and bolts of enforcement of the I-864 work? Does some agency contact you every few years and say, "Your ex used a means tested benefit last quarter. Here is how much you owe."? Or do they set you up in some sort of system and garnish your wages. (My wages would be easy to track as I work for local government and will draw a government pension at some point, presumably)

I came across a law firm that advertised that they could collect support based on I-864. This seemed strange to me as the money is owed to the federal government, right?

[UScitizenFilingforspouse]

The 125% federal poverty guideline for a household of 2 is $20,575. That's where your responsibility ends. See for yourself. https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p

[justadude]

The 125% federal poverty guideline for a household of 2 is $20,575. That's where your responsibility ends. See for yourself. https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p

Why do you mention 2 people? If we divorce I believe my obligation would be based on a 1 person household as she has no children.

What do you think about this question? Do you have any idea how it works?

How do the nuts and bolts of enforcement of the I-864 work? Does some agency contact you every few years and say, "Your ex used a means tested benefit last quarter. Here is how much you owe."? Or do they set you up in some sort of system and garnish your wages?

[UScitizenFilingforspouse]

Why do you mention 2 people? If we divorce I believe my obligation would be based on a 1 person household as she has no children.

What do you think about this question? Do you have any idea how it works?

How do the nuts and bolts of enforcement of the I-864 work? Does some agency contact you every few years and say, "Your ex used a means tested benefit last quarter. Here is how much you owe."? Or do they set you up in some sort of system and garnish your wages?

I don't have an answer to those questions. You can google that. Go through the I-864 instructions. They're a separate document. I would think the USCIS policy manual mentions how it all works. You can find the manual on the USCIS website.

I can tell you that we do not have a prenup. It did not even cross my mind. What's mine is his and what's his is mine. I am not familiar with prenups. Can't help you there.