I-944: Listing all assets required?

[pigrew]

We are filing a I-485 for a marriage-based adjustment. Form I-944 is driving me insane.

Are all of the household's assets required to be listed? Or is it more like the I-864 form where they only need to be listed if the income is <250% of the poverty line? (the instructions are not as clear as I'd like).

I'm hoping we can skip them, to avoid having to send them over 200 pages of bank statements (12 months * about 15 pages per month from four different banks), all single-sided per USCIS requests.

Also, I'm hoping to avoid having to hire an appraiser for my house (no leins, so I've never had an appraisal done...).... Maybe sending them the county's tax valuation statement in sufficient, as our income is much higher than 250% of the poverty line?

(Also, I'm trying to be careful by writing "NONE" as the name of family member C, D, and E. I'm leaving the preparer and translator pages blank. The form instructions say to write N/A or NONE where needed. The Acrobat form won't let me type "N/A" on most of the lines since they only allow letters and numbers.)

Thanks for your advice!

[pigrew]

Reading a bit more, I'm leaning towards the opinion that listing all assets is NOT required.

The instructions state, for example, "you may include the net value of your or the household member’s home as an asset".

My current plan is to include a set of bank statements showing more than 300% of the poverty guideline (since I'm a US citizen, 5X needed if sponsor is not a citizen), and list my house and the property tax value with a note asking them to disregard it if evidence is insufficient.

On the other hand, all liabilities are required, and that is very clearly stated in the instructions.

[danny32]

I didn’t list it because it would’ve been to much of a hassle and would’ve delayed our application. Income was above the threshold so we didn’t bother. And for the bank, instead of sending hundreds of pages I went to my banks and ask them for a statement with my average monthly balance for past 12 months and current balance. Just go talk to the bank and they’ll know what you’re asking for. It’s just one sheet of paper and will do the work.

[Irishoxford]

Reading a bit more, I'm leaning towards the opinion that listing all assets is NOT required.

The instructions state, for example, "you may include the net value of your or the household member’s home as an asset".

My current plan is to include a set of bank statements showing more than 300% of the poverty guideline (since I'm a US citizen, 5X needed if sponsor is not a citizen), and list my house and the property tax value with a note asking them to disregard it if evidence is insufficient.

On the other hand, all liabilities are required, and that is very clearly stated in the instructions.

I think there's a misreading of the instructions going on here. You only need, as a household in total income, 125% of the federal poverty guidelines (for a household of your size). The 300% vs 5x is only related to assets if you do not meet the initial 125% guidelines:

"If your household annual gross income is less than 125 percent of the Federal Poverty Guidelines based on your household
size listed in Part 2., you may demonstrate that the total value of your household’s assets and resources is five times the
difference between your household’s annual gross income and 125 percent (100 percent if you are on active duty, other
than in training, in the U.S. Armed Forces) of the Federal Poverty Guideline for your household size."

[Irishoxford]

Also, there's a slippage of language when it comes to liabilities. For income, it always states "your and your household" or "your household", and then curiously changes to "your" when it talks about liabilities.

I'm a technical writing professor by trade, so that struck me as very curious indeed.

[pigrew]

I think there's a misreading of the instructions going on here. You only need, as a household in total income, 125% of the federal poverty guidelines (for a household of your size). The 300% vs 5x is only related to assets if you do not meet the initial 125% guidelines:

Yes, I missed that part of the I-944 instructions, but on the other hand, I don't see a clear statement that 125% or 250% would be wholly sufficient. The term being used is "factors weighed heavily" in the determination.

See the last few FAQ questions at:

https://www.uscis.govhttps://www.immihelp.com/greencard-decoding-characters/gre.../public-charge

It states that it's a very positive factor if the alien can show:

• The alien has household income, assets, or resources and support from a sponsor, excluding any income from illegal activities or from public benefits, of at least 250% of the Federal Poverty Guidelines for the alien’s household size. 
• The alien is authorized to work and is currently employed in a legal industry with an annual income of at least 250% of the Federal Poverty Guidelines for a household of the alien’s household size. 
• The alien has private health insurance appropriate for the expected period of admission, so long as the alien does not receive subsidies in the form of premium tax credits under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act to pay for such health insurance. 

Somewhere else, it also mentioned the 3X / 5X assets.

We're sending incontrovertible evidence of the above three (but skipping excess above the 250%), and debatable evidence of assets with a friendly note asking them to disregard if they don't trust it.

If you have time for some light reading (I don't...), I found 217 pages of discussion in the Federal Register:

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...charge-grounds

[Irishoxford]

I think that you're describing the I-864 (and not the I-944). I don't see a clear statement that 125% or 250% would be wholly sufficient. The term being used is "factors weighed heavily" in the determination.

See the last few FAQ questions at:

https://www.uscis.govhttps://www.immihelp.com/greencard-decoding-characters/gre.../public-charge

It states that it's a very positive factor if the alien can show:



Somewhere else, it also mentioned the 3X / 5X assets.

We're sending incontrovertible evidence of the above three (but skipping excess above the 250%), and debatable evidence of assets with a friendly note asking them to disregard if they don't trust it.

If you have time for some light reading (I don't...), I found 217 pages of discussion in the Federal Register:

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...charge-grounds

Pigrew,

Absolutely understand why you're sending as much evidence in as possible. Clearly a good idea. Just don't want anyone reading this thread to think that they need household levels of income beyond what they need (>125%), even if it'd also be in their favour to have beyond that. The quote, meanwhile, was from the I-944 instructions (page 5). I submitted my savings, only because I considered that a primary extension of my income, but we'll meet the 250% threshold as of 2020's upcoming tax return (in 2021), and my job letter was part of that.

The reason why the I-944 is at 125% is justified on the basis of its consistency with the I-864 ("The 125 percent threshold is based on the income threshold set by Congress for sponsors for a Form I-864, which is required for most family-based AOS applications and some employment-based AOS applications. In order to maintain consistency with the income threshold set forth in the Form I-864 context, DHS believes that the 125 percent threshold is appropriate for use in the public charge rule and will not lower the threshold [of admissibility]. Any household income between 125 percent and 250 percent of the FPG is considered a positive factor in the totality of the circumstances." --- Federal Register)

The 3x/5x asset mention seems to be in reference to this following bit of information from the Federal Register, and only seemingly applies if you don't meet the 125% in the first place:

"(B) If the alien's household's annual gross income is less than 125 percent of the most recent Federal Poverty Guideline (100 percent for an alien on active duty, other than training, in the U.S. Armed Forces), the alien may submit evidence of ownership of significant assets. For purposes of this paragraph, an alien may establish ownership of significant assets, such as savings accounts, stocks, bonds, certificates of deposit, real estate or other assets, in which the combined cash value of all the assets (the total value of the assets less any offsetting liabilities) exceeds:

(1) If the intending immigrant is the spouse or child of a United States citizen (and the child has reached his or her 18th birthday), three times the difference between the alien's household income and 125 percent of the FPG (100 percent for those on active duty, other than training, in the U.S. Armed Forces) for the alien's household size;

...

(3) In all other cases, five times the difference between the alien's household income and 125 percent of the FPG (100 percent for those on active duty, other than training, in the U.S. Armed Forces) for the alien's household size." --- Federal Register.

J

[Amp79]

The 3x/5x asset mention seems to be in reference to this following bit of information from the Federal Register, and only seemingly applies if you don't meet the 125% in the first place:

"(B) If the alien's household's annual gross income is less than 125 percent of the most recent Federal Poverty Guideline (100 percent for an alien on active duty, other than training, in the U.S. Armed Forces), the alien may submit evidence of ownership of significant assets. For purposes of this paragraph, an alien may establish ownership of significant assets, such as savings accounts, stocks, bonds, certificates of deposit, real estate or other assets, in which the combined cash value of all the assets (the total value of the assets less any offsetting liabilities) exceeds:

(1) If the intending immigrant is the spouse or child of a United States citizen (and the child has reached his or her 18th birthday), three times the difference between the alien's household income and 125 percent of the FPG (100 percent for those on active duty, other than training, in the U.S. Armed Forces) for the alien's household size;

...

(3) In all other cases, five times the difference between the alien's household income and 125 percent of the FPG (100 percent for those on active duty, other than training, in the U.S. Armed Forces) for the alien's household size." --- Federal Register.

J

I'm confused about something. I am preparing to apply for an AOS as I recently married my US citizen spouse here in the US. She is unemployed and therefore does not have the necessary income required. But I have a substantial amount of assets above beyond 5X so I will transfer the equivalent of 5X to my wife's name so she has proof of her own.
But I also have a Canadian private disability pension which pays me apprx $8,000 per month and will continue for the foreseeable future. Can I use that income as proof enough in? Or should I use that and the substantial amounts of other assets I own i.e. real estate, investments, cash etc.?

I guess just list everything because the more the merrier?

[pigrew]

I'm confused about something. I am preparing to apply for an AOS as I recently married my US citizen spouse here in the US. She is unemployed and therefore does not have the necessary income required. But I have a substantial amount of assets above beyond 5X so I will transfer the equivalent of 5X to my wife's name so she has proof of her own.
But I also have a Canadian private disability pension which pays me apprx $8,000 per month and will continue for the foreseeable future. Can I use that income as proof enough in? Or should I use that and the substantial amounts of other assets I own i.e. real estate, investments, cash etc.?

I guess just list everything because the more the merrier?

You shouldn't need to transfer assets (except perhaps if you don't live together). Transferring assets may make it seem like you're trying to trick the reviewers. On both the I-944 and the I-864, you should be able to use both person's assets in the calculation (maybe only if you live together, or other restrictions? Check the instructions).

I don't know about foreign income. Without a lawyer's advice, I would include it with a note that it is foreign income, and also include the 5X of assets. Choose the assets that get you over the 5X mark, with the least evidence? For the i-944, they want 12 months of bank statements (>24 pages single sided), for real estate they want an actual appraisal to be completed.

Most US government benefits (like medicare) are not allowed to be listed in you income.

If you don't live together, then I'm not sure if the income can be combined. Check with a lawyer.

For the I-944, it seems like the assets/income are not strictly required, if you have other "positive factors".

[Amp79]

You shouldn't need to transfer assets (except perhaps if you don't live together). Transferring assets may make it seem like you're trying to trick the reviewers. On both the I-944 and the I-864, you should be able to use both person's assets in the calculation (maybe only if you live together, or other restrictions? Check the instructions).

I don't know about foreign income. Without a lawyer's advice, I would include it with a note that it is foreign income, and also include the 5X of assets. Choose the assets that get you over the 5X mark, with the least evidence? For the i-944, they want 12 months of bank statements (>24 pages single sided), for real estate they want an actual appraisal to be completed.

Most US government benefits (like medicare) are not allowed to be listed in you income.

If you don't live together, then I'm not sure if the income can be combined. Check with a lawyer.

For the I-944, it seems like the assets/income are not strictly required, if you have other "positive factors".

Thank you. Yes we live together and have been since about 1.5 years ago. We’re not trying to trick the officer by me putting 5X the poverty line in cash and US bonds into our joint bank account. We’re trying to follow the rules and requirements. If the rule is that if the US sponsor doesn’t have the 125% poverty line income then you can display they have 5X the poverty line in assets like cash, bonds, real estate etc then that is the reason I am transferring 5X the amount into our new joint US bank account. So she can meet the guidelines and sponsor me without the need to find a joint sponsor.

I hope the USCIS doesn’t think I’m trying to trick them because it’s obvious what I’m doing and why I’m doing it. Unless you’re not allowed to do that which I can’t see why you wouldn’t be?

also does her $30K student loan debt count against the 5X assets?