Special case, please read carefully

[rayb]

Your F3 Priority Date was retrogressed, and availablility of your Priority Date or visa processing will be delayed. Your visa fees are safe, and you will not have to pay them over. You will probably have to provide updated sponsorship documents, police clearances, but everything else will count as partially qualifying you when your F3 Priority Date becomes available again.

-Ray B

[melsorady]

I believe you did post in the wrong thread. Could you please take it off this thread and post it in the appropriate section or make a new thread so you don't make people confused!

[melsorady]

Melsorady,

I can buy this legal direction, which seems perfectly logical and in sync with our English law legacy. In your place, this would be my direction. I had never seen the issue (legality of marriage which occurred before legal termination of prior marriiage) explained in such a specific manner.

My concern since you brought this up, however, has been how your average USCIS and State Department reviewers will react when seeing your second marriage date of ???? (before 3/2013) and earlier marriage termination date of 3/2013). You will need to be prepared to offer a well-written succinct description of what happened with the divorce processing, proof that you believed it to be completed, and your subsequent divorce action to avoid being considered a bigamist by your earlier message. Your explanation should be coupled with the legal citations you provided below.

When almost any reviewer sees the two dates side by side, his hackles will go up, since he will immediately pounce on the inconsistency as evidence that you were trying to "circumvent the requirements" by marrying too soon.

--Ray B

Ray,

I know it needs a powerful attorney in law to come up with such a language that makes it easy to swallow all of it. Dates, being close to each other; I need you to put in mind that fact that my ex and I were separated since 6/2012. She moved on, and so do I...

Perhaps it would help if I break it down in timeline.

married 1/2009
conditional green card 6/2009
removal of conditions and permanent GC 7/2012
separation 6/2012
married to wife in morocco 12/2012
came back to US to find out divorce wasn't completed 1/2013
file divorce by publication in IL 1/2013
divorced in IL 3/2013

Marriage in morocco was supposed to be in 3/2013, but because of some family issues with my own family (in my home country Egypt, because of the conflict going on that time) they couldn't get tickets for a later date. And because both of my parents are old enough to travel with plane, I couldn't ask them to come in twice, one for engagement and another for wedding. That's why we did it all in one in 12/2012.

I entered my first marriage in good faith, and have well documented proof on that; I mean everything was in both names, plus, she had medical problem prevented her getting pregnant, I was following up with obgyn doc to treat her so we can get a kid, plus I encouraged her to go to school and actually paid for her tuitions.

But when I was betrayed, I just forget everything and move on, and I can proof 2nd marriage is faithful in the same way you believe in yourself.

Given 2 scenarios, and after knowing that my marriage by IL law is valid, which one do you prefer me doing first (student visa; the way we discussed in the previous post, OR, GC and prepare all this documentation?? Which route you think I have a better shot? My concern, is that she can't simply go with student stating she is not married, then we try GC stating she is married. My guessing is to go GC first but prepare very well, don't you agree?

[rayb]

Melsorady,

I would start with I-130 petition, to make certain that you pass any USCIS concerns or queries about the divorce-marriage date conflict. Once that is approved, if petitioned while in Morocco, or if interviewed in Morocco, all the paperwork is finished.

On the other hand, if she will be processed while in the U.S., if she gets here without any "B2 visa while married" problem, continue with the I-485 if the I-130 has been approved.

--ray B

Ray,

I know it needs a powerful attorney in law to come up with such a language that makes it easy to swallow all of it. Dates, being close to each other; I need you to put in mind that fact that my ex and I were separated since 6/2012. She moved on, and so do I...

Perhaps it would help if I break it down in timeline.

married 1/2009
conditional green card 6/2009
removal of conditions and permanent GC 7/2012
separation 6/2012
married to wife in morocco 12/2012
came back to US to find out divorce wasn't completed 1/2013
file divorce by publication in IL 1/2013
divorced in IL 3/2013

Marriage in morocco was supposed to be in 3/2013, but because of some family issues with my own family (in my home country Egypt, because of the conflict going on that time) they couldn't get tickets for a later date. And because both of my parents are old enough to travel with plane, I couldn't ask them to come in twice, one for engagement and another for wedding. That's why we did it all in one in 12/2012.

I entered my first marriage in good faith, and have well documented proof on that; I mean everything was in both names, plus, she had medical problem prevented her getting pregnant, I was following up with obgyn doc to treat her so we can get a kid, plus I encouraged her to go to school and actually paid for her tuitions.

But when I was betrayed, I just forget everything and move on, and I can proof 2nd marriage is faithful in the same way you believe in yourself.

Given 2 scenarios, and after knowing that my marriage by IL law is valid, which one do you prefer me doing first (student visa; the way we discussed in the previous post, OR, GC and prepare all this documentation?? Which route you think I have a better shot? My concern, is that she can't simply go with student stating she is not married, then we try GC stating she is married. My guessing is to go GC first but prepare very well, don't you agree?

[melsorady]

Melsorady,

I would start with I-130 petition, to make certain that you pass any USCIS concerns or queries about the divorce-marriage date conflict. Once that is approved, if petitioned while in Morocco, or if interviewed in Morocco, all the paperwork is finished.

On the other hand, if she will be processed while in the U.S., if she gets here without any "B2 visa while married" problem, continue with the I-485 if the I-130 has been approved.

--ray B

Ray,

Just to make sure I understand you; Do you mean if I-130 petition is approved with USCIS here, petition for I-485 in morocco (with subsequent interview) will,most likely, go smooth.

And do you think it is better than she comes in here on B2 then file I130 then I485 here in the US? I mean for the fact that they will see it as intention to immigrate cause her husband lives in US?!

[rayb]

No, that's not what I was trying to convey.

If she is going to be processed in Morocco, submit the I-130 to USCSI Stateside, then have the processing finish there with the visa issuance.

But if she will be in the U.S. soon, submit the I-130, but hold off doing the I-485 for Adjustment until you know the I-130 has been approved.

If processed in Morocco, the I-485 is not needed. She gets a Green Card after coming to the U.S. with an IR-1 visa.

--Ray B

Ray,

Just to make sure I understand you; Do you mean if I-130 petition is approved with USCIS here, petition for I-485 in morocco (with subsequent interview) will,most likely, go smooth.

And do you think it is better than she comes in here on B2 then file I130 then I485 here in the US? I mean for the fact that they will see it as intention to immigrate cause her husband lives in US?!

[melsorady]

No, that's not what I was trying to convey.

If she is going to be processed in Morocco, submit the I-130 to USCSI Stateside, then have the processing finish there with the visa issuance.

But if she will be in the U.S. soon, submit the I-130, but hold off doing the I-485 for Adjustment until you know the I-130 has been approved.

If processed in Morocco, the I-485 is not needed. She gets a Green Card after coming to the U.S. with an IR-1 visa.

--Ray B

Ray,

I think most likely it will be processed in Morocco. I mean I live in IL, she lives in Morocco. No way for her to come in here yet.

If we are going with student visa as a way to get in here, she will apply stating she is married (just in case she got refused and we had to apply for green card, just to keep consistency in the records) and I am her financial sponsor with school as visa sponsor. If approved and came in here, I will submit I-130 , wait till it gets approved then submit I485.

If not approved for student visa, will just submit I-130 in US, if approved, petition IR-1 visa to be processed and issued in Morocco, which will automatically turns into green card upon admission to the US.


how that looks now?

Also, if I-130 is approved, does it mean that other steps; (I-485, in case she is here or IR-1, in case she is in Morocco will be more likely to be approved)? I know that P-130 has to be approved first.

[rayb]

Melsorady,

The only thing that can cause you a problem, whether in Morocco during the I-130 processing Stateside, or Stateside, is getting in a "spitting match" with USCIS reviewers over the date inconsistency between the divorce and the new marriage. The gut response that most reviewers will have when seeing those two dates side-by-side on the I-130 and the G-325A will be "Uh Oh, we have a problem here." So include clear copies of the legal citations, coupled with a succinct explanation for why the marriage became legal after the final divorce date.

-Ray B

Ray,

I think most likely it will be processed in Morocco. I mean I live in IL, she lives in Morocco. No way for her to come in here yet.

If we are going with student visa as a way to get in here, she will apply stating she is married (just in case she got refused and we had to apply for green card, just to keep consistency in the records) and I am her financial sponsor with school as visa sponsor. If approved and came in here, I will submit I-130 , wait till it gets approved then submit I485.

If not approved for student visa, will just submit I-130 in US, if approved, petition IR-1 visa to be processed and issued in Morocco, which will automatically turns into green card upon admission to the US.


how that looks now?

Also, if I-130 is approved, does it mean that other steps; (I-485, in case she is here or IR-1, in case she is in Morocco will be more likely to be approved)? I know that P-130 has to be approved first.

[melsorady]

Melsorady,

The only thing that can cause you a problem, whether in Morocco during the I-130 processing Stateside, or Stateside, is getting in a "spitting match" with USCIS reviewers over the date inconsistency between the divorce and the new marriage. The gut response that most reviewers will have when seeing those two dates side-by-side on the I-130 and the G-325A will be "Uh Oh, we have a problem here." So include clear copies of the legal citations, coupled with a succinct explanation for why the marriage became legal after the final divorce date.

-Ray B

Ray,

I see your point. Most likely will hire an attorney for that and go over it again in detailed documentation. I am working to get documents handy, just want a good way to present it, and here where the attorney comes. I know it is all about gut feelings with USCIS, but you know how it looks now, I will do my best to get her here legally.

Is it possible that when I submit I-130 here, and the USCIS see the inconsistency in dates, that they will just reject the case, or don't approve it, without even an interview? I hope that I can be interviewed to, at least, explain my situation, because I know it will be most likely rejected if they will just look at the documents. I would like to take your opinion on that!

Just out of curiosity, now you know how it looks like from beginning to end, if you are an attorney, would you feel comfortable taking this case? I mean how confident will you be?

[rayb]

Melsorady,

There is no interview for petitioners during the I-130 process, unless there is suspicion of fraud or background problems (criminal) of the petitioner. I've had clients who were Afghans get called by telephone from local USCIS offices or to schedule calls to the U.S. Embassy in Kabul to be interviewed because of nationality or relationship questions. Also, when the law enforcement database check sees something on a petitioner, they sometimes give him a Biometrics appointmenet, so thehy can get a full FBI check.

I do paralegal and tax work, so can't respond in the context of an attorney, but the legal citations you provided would give me full confidence when responding to USCIS.

Your I-130 petition should include "succinct' description of the data conflicts and the legal citations, as an attachment. USCIS doesn't reject or initially deny approvals for this kind of problem, or even schedule an interview with the beneficiary. Instead, USCIS will send a "Request for Evidence," with a submittal deadline of 90 days or so for a response and new evidence.

--Ray B

Ray,

I see your point. Most likely will hire an attorney for that and go over it again in detailed documentation. I am working to get documents handy, just want a good way to present it, and here where the attorney comes. I know it is all about gut feelings with USCIS, but you know how it looks now, I will do my best to get her here legally.

Is it possible that when I submit I-130 here, and the USCIS see the inconsistency in dates, that they will just reject the case, or don't approve it, without even an interview? I hope that I can be interviewed to, at least, explain my situation, because I know it will be most likely rejected if they will just look at the documents. I would like to take your opinion on that!

Just out of curiosity, now you know how it looks like from beginning to end, if you are an attorney, would you feel comfortable taking this case? I mean how confident will you be?

[melsorady]

Melsorady,

There is no interview for petitioners during the I-130 process, unless there is suspicion of fraud or background problems (criminal) of the petitioner. I've had clients who were Afghans get called by telephone from local USCIS offices or to schedule calls to the U.S. Embassy in Kabul to be interviewed because of nationality or relationship questions. Also, when the law enforcement database check sees something on a petitioner, they sometimes give him a Biometrics appointmenet, so thehy can get a full FBI check.

I do paralegal and tax work, so can't respond in the context of an attorney, but the legal citations you provided would give me full confidence when responding to USCIS.

Your I-130 petition should include "succinct' description of the data conflicts and the legal citations, as an attachment. USCIS doesn't reject or initially deny approvals for this kind of problem, or even schedule an interview with the beneficiary. Instead, USCIS will send a "Request for Evidence," with a submittal deadline of 90 days or so for a response and new evidence.

--Ray B

Ray,

Well, I did biometrics once and don't mind it again, if requested, or whatever interview or calls they want to conduct. I just wanna convey my message in a confident, clear and strieght forward way, to avoid any further confusion.

Do you think, which is highly unlikely, if they didn't ask for further evidence of support, or if provided then they didn't ask for further evidence, do you think that the rest of process will be "relatively" smoother, or I will be in a better shape?

What else do you advice me to send with the initial I-130 petition?

[rayb]

Melsorady,

If your gal is to be processed in Morocco, there are three gates to pass:
1. I-130, USCIS, Stateside. A request for evidence is likely, if there is insufficient documentation included to overcome any review problems about dates.
2. NVC (National Statistics Office, New Hampshire) pre-Embassy review. Certified versions, including certified English translations for any documents in other than English, of civil documents may make an NVC employee's day when he "discovers the date overlapping from 2nd marriage to divorce from first babe."
3. The actual Embassy interview in Morocco, once all the earlier doors are passed thru, where staff will probably interview your gal about the circumstances causing the date conflicts. If you are there are that interivew, on a discretionary basis the interviewer may included you in the meeting.

-Ray B

Ray,

Well, I did biometrics once and don't mind it again, if requested, or whatever interview or calls they want to conduct. I just wanna convey my message in a confident, clear and strieght forward way, to avoid any further confusion.

Do you think, which is highly unlikely, if they didn't ask for further evidence of support, or if provided then they didn't ask for further evidence, do you think that the rest of process will be "relatively" smoother, or I will be in a better shape?

What else do you advice me to send with the initial I-130 petition?

[melsorady]

Melsorady,

If your gal is to be processed in Morocco, there are three gates to pass:
1. I-130, USCIS, Stateside. A request for evidence is likely, if there is insufficient documentation included to overcome any review problems about dates.
2. NVC (National Statistics Office, New Hampshire) pre-Embassy review. Certified versions, including certified English translations for any documents in other than English, of civil documents may make an NVC employee's day when he "discovers the date overlapping from 2nd marriage to divorce from first babe."
3. The actual Embassy interview in Morocco, once all the earlier doors are passed thru, where staff will probably interview your gal about the circumstances causing the date conflicts. If you are there are that interivew, on a discretionary basis the interviewer may included you in the meeting.

-Ray B

Thank you, Ray, for your advice and time so far...much appreciated. I will keep you and the forum posted as the time progress.

[melsorady]

Melsorady,

If your gal is to be processed in Morocco, there are three gates to pass:
1. I-130, USCIS, Stateside. A request for evidence is likely, if there is insufficient documentation included to overcome any review problems about dates.
2. NVC (National Statistics Office, New Hampshire) pre-Embassy review. Certified versions, including certified English translations for any documents in other than English, of civil documents may make an NVC employee's day when he "discovers the date overlapping from 2nd marriage to divorce from first babe."
3. The actual Embassy interview in Morocco, once all the earlier doors are passed thru, where staff will probably interview your gal about the circumstances causing the date conflicts. If you are there are that interivew, on a discretionary basis the interviewer may included you in the meeting.

-Ray B

Ray,

One more question; so in essence, you think it is better (from overall acceptance point of view) that we apply for I-130 first, not student visa)? though she actually wanna study and gain benefit of time, if it happened and she got a visa. I am thinking about it like this: in case she was refused for a student visa, then apply for I-130, they will know that she was applying for student visa before and now green card. And though she is eligible to apply for both, the sequence of events (applying for student visa, got refused and now GC) would make an average USCIS think: ''Well, so you weren't actually looking for student visa, you were just trying to get a way to come in sooner''!

I don't know, I am just guessing and trying to think like them. And If that's the case, do you think it is better to postpone I-130 for may be few months before applying for I-130?

Or just ignore student visa from the beginning (though we already started all applications with the school here and it is almost done), and go for I-130? Again, I am asking about the overall acceptance, or the gut feeling, or the case merit.

Thank you again!

[rayb]

I would go for the student visa first, as that will be processed fastest (if approved) and get your wife to the U.S. Once in the U.S., you can proceed with submitting an I-130 (without submitting the I-485) so that you can deal with any "divorce-marriage" date issues before investing the full $1,070 for the I-485 Adjustment procedure.

--Ray B

Ray,

One more question; so in essence, you think it is better (from overall acceptance point of view) that we apply for I-130 first, not student visa)? though she actually wanna study and gain benefit of time, if it happened and she got a visa. I am thinking about it like this: in case she was refused for a student visa, then apply for I-130, they will know that she was applying for student visa before and now green card. And though she is eligible to apply for both, the sequence of events (applying for student visa, got refused and now GC) would make an average USCIS think: ''Well, so you weren't actually looking for student visa, you were just trying to get a way to come in sooner''!

I don't know, I am just guessing and trying to think like them. And If that's the case, do you think it is better to postpone I-130 for may be few months before applying for I-130?

Or just ignore student visa from the beginning (though we already started all applications with the school here and it is almost done), and go for I-130? Again, I am asking about the overall acceptance, or the gut feeling, or the case merit.

Thank you again!