using experience gained with the employer

[milady]

HI guys - i am new to this forum as i am in the beginning stages of my green card application.
I have a 4 year BA degree from an US college followed by 21 months of management consulting experience at a big consulting firm in New York. Following that i got a new job at the strategy department of a marketing company as a senior analyst. I have been with this company for the last 3 years, and along the way, i got promoted to a managerial position (Manager, Strategy (Financial Services)) which substantially changed my job description. Now people report to me, i have supervisory duties, I am in constant contact with the client and i participate in internal client meetings to provide them with strategical direction, i participate in hiring activities for my company, etc. As a senior analyst I basically sat at my desk and crunched numbers/did analysis and did research. Without counting my experience within my current company i cannot satisfy the minimum requirements for my current job description which BA+2 years of experience (i am 3 months short from my previous employee).
In your experience, do you think the change in the positions i held with my current employee would be dissimilar enough to be considered substantially different?

Thanks for all of your responses!

[DMX17]

My opinion..

Your best bet is to talk to the company and their lawyer about using experience gained in the same company. I know that you can use experience gained in the same company if the position you are applying PERM for is at least 50% different than your past position. I have also read that these cases are hard to approve.

Do let us know what the final outcome is!

[milady]

Thank you. i think my only bet is to use the experience gained with the company. the question that the lawyers are considering is whether or not apply GC for my current position, Manager, or Director, which would be a future position that is even more managerial (leading multiple teams of people as opposed to a few people reporting to you) and involves being part of the senior management team within my company.
I work at a multinational company with over 500 people just in the manhattan location and they seem to work with a reputable law firm and they keep telling me that they "go through this process all the time" so i should relax. Easier said than done!

I am waiting for a call from the lawyers. i will update with what we decide.
once again thanks for the reply. if anyone has experiences with a situation like this, please share- it would be much appreciated!

[DMX17]

I don't want to increase your anxiety but I am kind of in a similar dilemma. I was going over Labor Certification rules so that I can prepare myself for my PERM meeting with my current employer this month. My gut feeling is that this is some tough shxt.


For example, look at this on On The Job training. This is when you want to use experience gained in the same company. My feeling is that the law frim has to really experienced in order to file cases like yours and hopefully mine.

Just keep in mind it may not by easy.


From DOL regulations...for future reference


(2) A U.S. worker is able and qualified for the job opportunity if the worker can acquire the skills necessary to perform the duties involved in the occupation during a reasonable period of on-the-job training. Rejecting U.S. workers for lacking skills necessary to perform the duties involved in the occupation, where the U.S. workers are capable of acquiring the skills during a reasonable period of on-the-job training is not a lawful job-related reason for rejection of the U.S. workers.


............


(3) If the alien beneficiary already is employed by the employer, in considering whether the job requirements represent the employer's actual minimums, DOL will review the training and experience possessed by the alien beneficiary at the time of hiring by the employer, including as a contract employee. The employer can not require domestic worker applicants to possess training and/or experience beyond what the alien possessed at the time of hire unless:
(i) The alien gained the experience while working for the employer, including as a contract employee, in a position not substantially comparable to the position for which certification is being sought, or
(ii) The employer can demonstrate that it is no longer feasible to train a worker to qualify for the position.


This basically means all those new grads that joined the employer right out of college without prior experience are screwed in that their PERM would require BS+0 yr experience (assuming the job normally does not require an MS). And, lots and lots of resumes will need to be screened and denied in recruiement. The DOL may not believe the employer.

DMX

[milady]

actually i do not want to use any training training i got on the job aside from the extra three months of being exposed to the industry in order to complete the 2 years of experience requirement. any technical skills necessary (database development, statistical analysis, modeling techniques. etc.), i acquired in my previous employee and i can get an experience letter explaining that. my main concern is that i am 3 months short of the 2 years of minimum experience required.

my position is genuinely different from what i started as (especially salary, hierarchy and responsibility wise) so let's hope both you and i can show that there is an at least 50% difference in job descriptions.

[DMX17]

Thank you. i think my only bet is to use the experience gained with the company. the question that the lawyers are considering is whether or not apply GC for my current position, Manager, or Director, which would be a future position that is even more managerial (leading multiple teams of people as opposed to a few people reporting to you) and involves being part of the senior management team within my company.

Well, if they want to apply for a future position (Manager or Director), their requirements, I would think, would go up singnificantly. In this case, you may need to use the experience gained in the same company. This experience would't just be 3 months but possibly more than 3 months.

Anyway, let me what happens.

[milady]

i am already a manager.... and their minimum req. for manager is BA+2 years of experience. i already had 21months of experience that they are asking for when i joined the company... so i am 3 months short. i joined as an analyst and worked as such for 2.5 years so iam hoping i can use 3 months of that industry experience to complete the 2 year minimum