N-400 Name Change Section Help

[Ghost360]

Hello there guys, I wanted to get your thoughts because me and the wife are banging our heads with this problem. I will do my best to explain the problem. We have already called USCIS and we got no where. So please look over and share your thoughts on this. When me and the wife got married in India, our marriage certificate the wife does not have my last name. The reason for this was because she already had her passport and it was used as her ID Proof to create the Marriage Certificate. So currently on the marriage certificate the wife does not have my last name. We are at the beginning process of filling out N-400 form and of course there is the Name Change Section. We currently live in San Jose, California and I called USCIS. If we were to use the Name Change section on the N-400 Form and add my last name to my wife's name we would run into future issues with this. When I called USCIS and shared my problem we were told that we will not receive any Name Change Proof document. All the other states give proof, except California.

Part two to this problem is that when my wife becomes US Citizen, she will need to surrender her Indian Passport. If we were to go through this name change process through N-400, we won't get any proof for the name change. And when you surrender your passport, they will ask for name change proof.

I hope I haven't confused too much, but please read over and let me know if there is a way for me and wife to tackle this issue. Its really a big problem and I would like to get some help on this. If any Indian Couples when through this process, please share your thoughts and help us out. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you everyone in advance for your comments and help.

Josh

[rayb]

Ghost,

I've assisted with several Naturalization applications through the Sacramento USCIS processing and name changes on the N-400 have not been a problem. I believe that the Sacramento office initiated a county legal change as part of the process. I'm not sure what you mean by "future issues" being a problem, as the subsequent Naturalization Certificate showing the legally-allowable marriage name of your will be considered legal proof of a name change. Also, in most jurisdictions marriage licences and certificates do not necessarily show the wife's new married name, just her maiden name. It is standard convention in the U.S. that the wife has a legal right to assume the family name of her husband after marriage, whether shown on marriage record or not.

I think that you may be assuming problems that just won't happen. As you have already discovered, obtaining advice or opinions form USCIS "Help Desk" calls just won't work. You were basically asking for form-filling and/or legal advice, and they are not trained to provide such assistance.

I can't speak for your Indian "name change" requirement, but it certainly wouldn't have any bearing on your U.S. status.

--Ray B

Hello there guys, I wanted to get your thoughts because me and the wife are banging our heads with this problem. I will do my best to explain the problem. We have already called USCIS and we got no where. So please look over and share your thoughts on this. When me and the wife got married in India, our marriage certificate the wife does not have my last name. The reason for this was because she already had her passport and it was used as her ID Proof to create the Marriage Certificate. So currently on the marriage certificate the wife does not have my last name. We are at the beginning process of filling out N-400 form and of course there is the Name Change Section. We currently live in San Jose, California and I called USCIS. If we were to use the Name Change section on the N-400 Form and add my last name to my wife's name we would run into future issues with this. When I called USCIS and shared my problem we were told that we will not receive any Name Change Proof document. All the other states give proof, except California.

Part two to this problem is that when my wife becomes US Citizen, she will need to surrender her Indian Passport. If we were to go through this name change process through N-400, we won't get any proof for the name change. And when you surrender your passport, they will ask for name change proof.

I hope I haven't confused too much, but please read over and let me know if there is a way for me and wife to tackle this issue. Its really a big problem and I would like to get some help on this. If any Indian Couples when through this process, please share your thoughts and help us out. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you everyone in advance for your comments and help.

Josh

[Ghost360]

Ghost,

I've assisted with several Naturalization applications through the Sacramento USCIS processing and name changes on the N-400 have not been a problem. I believe that the Sacramento office initiated a county legal change as part of the process. I'm not sure what you mean by "future issues" being a problem, as the subsequent Naturalization Certificate showing the legally-allowable marriage name of your will be considered legal proof of a name change. Also, in most jurisdictions marriage licences and certificates do not necessarily show the wife's new married name, just her maiden name. It is standard convention in the U.S. that the wife has a legal right to assume the family name of her husband after marriage, whether shown on marriage record or not.

I think that you may be assuming problems that just won't happen. As you have already discovered, obtaining advice or opinions form USCIS "Help Desk" calls just won't work. You were basically asking for form-filling and/or legal advice, and they are not trained to provide such assistance.

I can't speak for your Indian "name change" requirement, but it certainly wouldn't have any bearing on your U.S. status.

--Ray B

Thanks for your input Ray. I see no issue with us and the USCIS office. I believe if we were to go through the Name Change Process on N-400 we would run into no issue. The problem is when it comes to surrendering the wife's Indian Passport to CKGS. When I we called this Agency and ask if the US Citizenship Certificate would be enough proof name change, they said no.

This is what the CKGS Agency is asking for when it comes to name change process:

Name Change Documentation:
For former Indian nationals, if your name in your Indian passport or Indian government issued document is different in any way from the name in your United States passport, a copy of one of the following documents must be provided.

Marriage Certificate showing the name change if the name was changed at marriage.
Official court order for the name change
Endorsement of name change during naturalization process.


Josh

[rayb]

Josh,

In some jurisdictions, a marriage certificate will show marriage name to be used. Others will not.

For your particular situation, I would provide copy of marriage certificate (even if married name is not specifically shown), copy of Naturalization application (form N-400), copy of Naturalization certificate, and notarized affidavit explaining how the document flow resulted in legal conversion to married name. If that is not accepted when you turn over Indian passport, I would then ask them to provide a written explanation for why your proof of name change did not meet the Indian govt. requirements (but ask for it in a nice way).

There is sometimes a certain bureaucratic stubborness one encounters with U.S. government employees who perceive their roles as allowing them to interpret their own rules to their own design. I had to submit a condo deed at the San Mateo County Recorder's office a while back, and an Indian national employee there got very officious about things she thought were not shown on the deed that I must take home and have redone. It was all an act on her part because the deed had just been prepared by my own trust attorney, who does it all the time. I finally told her that my attorney would probably have to deal directly with her office, since he prepared the deed, and she shut up.

--Ray B

Thanks for your input Ray. I see no issue with us and the USCIS office. I believe if we were to go through the Name Change Process on N-400 we would run into no issue. The problem is when it comes to surrendering the wife's Indian Passport to CKGS. When I we called this Agency and ask if the US Citizenship Certificate would be enough proof name change, they said no.

This is what the CKGS Agency is asking for when it comes to name change process:

Name Change Documentation:
For former Indian nationals, if your name in your Indian passport or Indian government issued document is different in any way from the name in your United States passport, a copy of one of the following documents must be provided.

Marriage Certificate showing the name change if the name was changed at marriage.
Official court order for the name change
Endorsement of name change during naturalization process.


Josh

[Ghost360]

Josh,

In some jurisdictions, a marriage certificate will show marriage name to be used. Others will not.

For your particular situation, I would provide copy of marriage certificate (even if married name is not specifically shown), copy of Naturalization application (form N-400), copy of Naturalization certificate, and notarized affidavit explaining how the document flow resulted in legal conversion to married name. If that is not accepted when you turn over Indian passport, I would then ask them to provide a written explanation for why your proof of name change did not meet the Indian govt. requirements (but ask for it in a nice way).

There is sometimes a certain bureaucratic stubborness one encounters with U.S. government employees who perceive their roles as allowing them to interpret their own rules to their own design. I had to submit a condo deed at the San Mateo County Recorder's office a while back, and an Indian national employee there got very officious about things she thought were not shown on the deed that I must take home and have redone. It was all an act on her part because the deed had just been prepared by my own trust attorney, who does it all the time. I finally told her that my attorney would probably have to deal directly with her office, since he prepared the deed, and she shut up.

--Ray B

Thanks Ray, I will give agency a call and see how they like your idea. You do have some good points and it will depend if they accept at.

Josh

[namechange400]

I am running into exact same issue that I got my last name changed (to my husband's first name) through Naturalization application in San Jose. My oath ceremony wasn't in a court so I don't have a court order.
Now I have been asked for one of the following documents that Josh mentioned.
Please let me know what worked to get the renunciation or OCI application approved. thank you.

Thanks Ray, I will give agency a call and see how they like your idea. You do have some good points and it will depend if they accept at.

Josh