N400 interview -- partial pass & re-testing

[drsingh]

Hi,

My father filed his N400 in February, 2016, after 6 years of green card. Physical presence, and all all other requirements were met. He even attended a 8-week long "Citizenship preparation" class at the local library.

A week ago, he had his interview in southern, suburban NJ. Per the "report card" handed to him after the interview,

- He passed Civics / history / geography test (he answered 6 correct out of the first 7 questions; no further questions were asked).
- He passed English reading test on the first try.
- He passed English listening/writing test on the first try.

However, the officer said he needs improvement in "speaking and understanding", and that a second test would be rescheduled for that portion only. The officer was kind enough to talk to me (son of the applicant) after the interview, so based on this, below is what happened.

- For many questions, my father answered in short form. For example to "What is your name?", he answered "Ram Gopal" rather than "My name is Ram Gopal".
- Officer asked "Have you ever voted?" (Not the full "Have you ever voted in the US?"). My father, naively, assumed that since officer said "ever voted" he should say yes, since he has voted before in India in prior elections. Officer agreed he did not ask the question in full, but from the context my father should have understood it meant in US only, or my father should have said "Yes, I have voted in India", or should have clarified the question by saying "Do you mean in the US?"

Officer said a retest of the speaking & understanding portions, will be done within 2 months. My father was disappointed, but he is now preparing for round 2.

At the same time, he won't be ready to take TOEFL/GRE level exams My father has limited Enlish fluency, but he has never had any issue communicating during the last 6 years he has been in the US.

What are some tips to prepare for the English speaking/understanding during N400 tests? Any books / videos? Should we seek an attorney representation, or would that make the officer think more adversarial, take even tougher stand?

What happens if, per chance, the officer decides that my father did not meet the requirement of English understanding / speaking in test # 2? I understand a new application and fee would need to be submitted, but would my father also need to take civics / history /geography test again?

I would appreciate hearing from others who have gone through similar experience.

[jenim]

So sorry that your dad had to go through such an experience at that office in NJ. I know the location you are talking about. My parents have their interview there in a few days and when I shared your dad's experience with them, they felt very sorry for him, and also super worried about their impending interview. My parents don't speak fluent English, but we thought they can somehow manage with what I have coached them so far and by them watching CZ interviews on youtube. I had no idea that local libraries had CZ prep classes, else I would have definitely had them attend those, so they would at least feel confident before their interview.

I have trained them as much as I can, on potential questions that can be asked regarding trips outside US etc and also went over all the questions on the application form with them, but I guess it all depends on who you get as the interviewing officer. It is so unfortunate in your dad's case, even though the interviewer realized that he could have asked that voting question exactly as it is listed on the application, he did leave out the "US" part, which led your dad to interpret the question as it seemed fit to him. The officer could have been a little lenient as there was an error in his question as well..sigh...

Somebody's parent I know in another state went through a similar issue like your dad's recently. They passed the civics, reading, writing tests but was also asked to come back after 2 months for a retest of the "English understanding" part. Their interview is scheduled for later, but that person is also upset and nervous about having to go to the interview twice on this account.

Were there any other questions that your dad remembers he didn't answer correctly, or was this voting question the only one? Did the officer ask your dad to bring you to the room from outside, so the officer could explain why he didn't approve? At least he was considerate about it. I really don't understand why they have to be so strict with applicants' English understanding if they are over 60+ years, if they did all other tests well, and they are probably just immigrating here permanently to live with their children? My parents are quite stressed about this whole thing because of their broken English.

I don't have much advice to offer you except that please ask your dad to be confident this time, and like you said, have him answer in complete sentences.

Please check the notifications on this site, as I sent you a message.

[suziq38]

Passing The N-400.

"..........What are some tips to prepare for the English speaking/understanding during N400 tests? Any books / videos? Should we seek an attorney representation, or would that make the officer think more adversarial, take even tougher stand?..."
This is the most difficult part of the Citizenship Exam. They can ask you almost anything.
He needs to memorize the N400 questions and answers. There is the immigration website, check out a website called " **** ," and watch the citizenship interviews on you tube. An attorney could make the meeting adversarial, especially if there are no real issues that he can not explain and needs a lawyer to do so for him. You can practice examples of the "Advanced Sample Interview" found in the Citizenship podcast website. There are also English Language Adult Schools in your city that he could attend. There may be a citizenship class at the school. These classes are usually very low cost or free. There are instructors there who can tell him what to expect, but we can not predict who the interviewer will be. Some are very laid back and easy, while others are wound tight and strict. At any rate, maybe hiring a tutor well versed in Citizenship Exam taking would be in order. They cost about $30.00-$50.00 an hour, one on one. Also, have a family member or friend drill him on possible questions. Maybe there were other reasons why he did not pass than just what your father stated. Some people are negative, scared, and it looks like they are angry because their body language is bad. They cross their arms....they rarely make eye contact or smile, they interrupt the interviewer. Some actions are very annoying, others collectively equal a "FAIL." They can fail your or pass you for any reason...it is objective and subjective. I always tell my students to get the person to feel your positive demeanor.
I literally had a student who answered less than 15 minutes of easy questions and passed all parts. It depends on who you get, how much you studied, how confident you appear, etc. If I were you, I would leave NOTHING to chance. I would practice every conceivible N400 question and make sure he knows the answer to all. Then i would ask other family members to do mock interviews with him while you listen in another room. Would you give him a "pass?" Be tough.

" What happens if, per chance, the officer decides that my father did not meet the requirement of English understanding / speaking in test # 2? I understand a new application and fee would need to be submitted, but would my father also need to take civics / history /geography test again?..."
If he doesn't pass the second time around, I think that he has to pay again, but he does not have to take the other parts again. Call the immigration department and ask them to be sure. Maybe there are different rules for certain states.

Good Luck. He can pass, but he has to really work on it next time. The interviewer sounded strict. They have every right to be as strict as they want. Hopefully, your dad will get someone different and pass.

[drsingh]

[...]

Were there any other questions that your dad remembers he didn't answer correctly, or was this voting question the only one? Did the officer ask your dad to bring you to the room from outside, so the officer could explain why he didn't approve? At least he was considerate about it. I really don't understand why they have to be so strict with applicants' English understanding if they are over 60+ years, if they did all other tests well, and they are probably just immigrating here permanently to live with their children? My parents are quite stressed about this whole thing because of their broken English.

I don't have much advice to offer you except that please ask your dad to be confident this time, and like you said, have him answer in complete sentences.

Please check the notifications on this site, as I sent you a message.

The officer did not ask him to bring me inside (I think that would be highly unusual). I did see one applicant show with an attorney, but did not wait long enough to see if the attorney went inside the interview room, or not.

At the end of the test, officer came out with my father, and waited a second until he saw my father looking at me. That was his cue that I was with that candidate. So then officer talked to me, pleasant, polite and all that. My father was in somewhat of a shock, and quiet. Once we went outside, he explained what happened, why he answered "Yes" to voting, because, as best as he could remmeber, the officer only asked "Have you ever voted?".

My dad is 73, and I think he understands English better than many locals I come in contact on a daily basis at grocery stores, mechanic shops, etc. Besides, he is LONG retired, and not looking for a job or anything.

Also, it's ridiculous to have to answer the same question in 20 ways (Have you ever gone to jail? Have you ever been sentenced but pardoned and not gone to jail? Have you ever been sentenced and sentence waived? Have you ever been charged but not found guilty? Have you ever been charged? etc. Why not just ask have you ever been charged with anything, and only if that is yes, go with the remaining questions?

[drsingh]

"..........What are some tips to prepare for the English speaking/understanding during N400 tests? Any books / videos? Should we seek an attorney representation, or would that make the officer think more adversarial, take even tougher stand?..."
This is the most difficult part of the Citizenship Exam. They can ask you almost anything.
He needs to memorize the N400 questions and answers. There is the immigration website, check out a website called " **** ," and watch the citizenship interviews on you tube. An attorney could make the meeting adversarial, especially if there are no real issues that he can not explain and needs a lawyer to do so for him. You can practice examples of the "Advanced Sample Interview" found in the Citizenship podcast website. There are also English Language Adult Schools in your city that he could attend. There may be a citizenship class at the school. These classes are usually very low cost or free. There are instructors there who can tell him what to expect, but we can not predict who the interviewer will be. Some are very laid back and easy, while others are wound tight and strict. At any rate, maybe hiring a tutor well versed in Citizenship Exam taking would be in order. They cost about $30.00-$50.00 an hour, one on one. Also, have a family member or friend drill him on possible questions. Maybe there were other reasons why he did not pass than just what your father stated. Some people are negative, scared, and it looks like they are angry because their body language is bad. They cross their arms....they rarely make eye contact or smile, they interrupt the interviewer. Some actions are very annoying, others collectively equal a "FAIL." They can fail your or pass you for any reason...it is objective and subjective. I always tell my students to get the person to feel your positive demeanor.
I literally had a student who answered less than 15 minutes of easy questions and passed all parts. It depends on who you get, how much you studied, how confident you appear, etc. If I were you, I would leave NOTHING to chance. I would practice every conceivible N400 question and make sure he knows the answer to all. Then i would ask other family members to do mock interviews with him while you listen in another room. Would you give him a "pass?" Be tough.

" What happens if, per chance, the officer decides that my father did not meet the requirement of English understanding / speaking in test # 2? I understand a new application and fee would need to be submitted, but would my father also need to take civics / history /geography test again?..."
If he doesn't pass the second time around, I think that he has to pay again, but he does not have to take the other parts again. Call the immigration department and ask them to be sure. Maybe there are different rules for certain states.

Good Luck. He can pass, but he has to really work on it next time. The interviewer sounded strict. They have every right to be as strict as they want. Hopefully, your dad will get someone different and pass.

Hi Suziq,

Thanks for all the ideas. He is spending 2-4 hours every day studying for it. We don't have the rescheduled date yet. We have created a file of all questions on N400, and answers, and my children are drilling, including trying to trick (random order of questions, double negatives, etc.)

Let's see how it goes next time.

In your reply, you listed some website, but that got turned into asterisks. Can you please post the website again by some other means, or send it via private text. For example to the current site, one can go by "type 3 w" then a dot then "imm" then "help" then dot then a c then an o then an m.

[drsingh]

So sorry that your dad had to go through such an experience at that office in NJ. I know the location you are talking about. My parents have their interview there in a few days and when I shared your dad's experience with them, they felt very sorry for him,
...and also super worried about their impending interview [...]

Hi JenM,

It has been 3 months since the above post, so I am curious to know how your parents did at the citizenship interview.

[drsingh]

Hi All,

I am the original poster of this thread, and unfortunately, I have bad news to report.

My father had passed, Civics, Geography, English reading and English writing portions of the naturalization test in the first interview, in June, 2016. The confusion in the "English Understanding" portion of the test had emanated from the examiner asking abbreviated question "Have you ever voted?" to which my father had answered "Yes", rather than the officer asking "Have you ever voted in the US?", to which my father would have answered "No" (Of course, my father has voted many times in his country of birth).

Anyway, USCIS scheduled a second interview at the end of August, to test "English Understanding." Unfortunately, in this second test, the examiner was an African American lady who asked only 2 questions, using very colloquial language rather than formal questioning, and after that she concluded that my father did not have sufficient understanding of English.

This was a BITTER disappointment, after more than 6 months of hard work, my father studying 2-5 hours each day, and both my children tutoring, drilling and grilling their grandfather for this exam, and after he got everything write in other portions of the test, to fail him for lack of colloquial knowledge.

The first examiner was at least well mannered and helpful -- after the interview, the first examiner in June, 2016, spoke to me and told me what my father should focus on in future. The second examiner in August 2016 was an African American lady with an attitude. She did not want to explain anything to me after the interview ("I have given my reasons on the paper" -- but the paper had no details, just a box checked); finally, when she spoke for 1 minute, it was on a condescending tone, and colloquial language like at a black revival church (where every sentence ends in hallelujah!)

My father was so disappointed by this experience, he probably won't apply for citizenship exam ever again ... just renew the green card every 10 years

[Inmilod]

My husband run in the same issue just couple of days ago. He passed his writing, reading, and Civic tests during first 5 minutes. After talking 45 minutes with IO and answering different questions, my husband was confused with one question and asked the IO ask him in a different way. The IO refused to rephrase the question and said that my husband did not pass speaking and understand English part. I was just shocked. After 45 minutes talk, someone doesn't speak and understand English.... And the IO was really rude since the very fist minute... Is it the way they need to talk to applicants?.... My husband runs his own business and spends 30% of his time talking with English speaking customers and vendors... I am going to lawyer and will file a complaint. The IO had a really heavy accent too and it was not clear what he asks. Only one question to rephrase after 45minutes talk!!!! I cannot believe what has happened at all! Nonsense

[NA1978]

Anyone with partial pass recently can tell me how long it took for them to get the letter for 2nd interview?
did online status change at all or the letter showed up online in the document tab?
my mom failed her N400 portion which was not fair and she was told she will get a letter within one week but nothing yet. Nothing has changed in online status either, just says you attended your interview.